Issue with front and rear blinkers

[SirDoopYJ]

I pretty much pulled my whole front end of the Jeep apart (Grille and Left Fender) and put it all back together. I now have an issue with my blinkers. At times they do not work and at times they do. At times only the right side blinks. Note that my side blinkers blink no matter what. When they do all work they blink at a pretty quick pace, which was normal before taking everything apart. When only the side blinkers work and nothing else they blink at a slower pace.

What is going on? One of those "Jeep" things?

 

[cas]

Sounds like you probably have a bad ground. Fast blinking is a symptom of that, and since you had the fender off it makes sense.

 

[Chris]

Sounds like a bad ground to me as well.

 

[SirDoopYJ]

Sounds like a bad ground to me as well.

Are there any other grounds besides the ones that are screwed on the grille above each headlight. I tried scraping the paint because at first, all my right side lights were dim. Scraping the paint fixed that and all my lights were brighter.

 

[SirDoopYJ]

Sounds like you probably have a bad ground. Fast blinking is a symptom of that, and since you had the fender off it makes sense.

The only grounds I saw were the ones that screw into the grille above each headlight.

 

[machoheadgames]

The only grounds I saw were the ones that screw into the grille above each headlight.

The only grounds are the ones on each side of the grille. However, the tail lights ground to the tub via their bolts and if they aren't grounded properly, they will halt blinking for the their respective side of the vehicle. But you didn't mess with that during your grille removal so I doubt they are a factor, that would be a bit of a coincidence.

What all did you do exactly during your disassembly and reassembly? It's not a complicated system really, hard to imagine why there would be many issues and the fix whatever it happens to be should be relatively simple.

 

[SirDoopYJ]

The only grounds are the ones on each side of the grille. However, the tail lights ground to the tub via their bolts and if they aren't grounded properly, they will halt blinking for the their respective side of the vehicle. But you didn't mess with that during your grille removal so I doubt they are a factor, that would be a bit of a coincidence.

What all did you do exactly during your disassembly and reassembly? It's not a complicated system really, hard to imagine why there would be many issues and the fix whatever it happens to be should be relatively simple.

Well for one, I removed the light wire harness and had to feed it through the grille. I removed it all the way to the windshield wiper fluid wire. I place the strand on top the cowl and it stayed there until I reconnected everything back. I did remove the negative terminal off the battery, but I didn't think about it until after removing the first ground of the grille. I then removed radiator, A/C condenser, and grille.

On the left side fender, I removed coolant reservoir, windshield fluid reservoir, horn, air intake box.

I replaced my lower steering shaft. I flushed out my engine, I don't believe water got on anything. I sanded some rust on the side wall that the fender bolts to and I sanded where grille mount bushings go.

Could it be something in the steering wheel that may be short? Could be why it works sometimes?

 

[SirDoopYJ]

The screws that bolt down the ground are rusty. I will try new screws and clean them up some more. The connections for the bulbs are a bit corroded too. What should I use to clean these up or should I invest in new connectors?

 

[machoheadgames]

Well for one, I removed the light wire harness and had to feed it through the grille. I removed it all the way to the windshield wiper fluid wire. I place the strand on top the cowl and it stayed there until I reconnected everything back. I did remove the negative terminal off the battery, but I didn't think about it until after removing the first ground of the grille. I then removed radiator, A/C condenser, and grille.

On the left side fender, I removed coolant reservoir, windshield fluid reservoir, horn, air intake box.

I replaced my lower steering shaft. I flushed out my engine, I don't believe water got on anything. I sanded some rust on the side wall that the fender bolts to and I sanded where grille mount bushings go.

Could it be something in the steering wheel that may be short? Could be why it works sometimes?

That's weird. Doesn't sound like you did anything too complicated to really mess anything up. Did you have any problems at all before any of this?

 

[machoheadgames]

The screws that bolt down the ground are rusty. I will try new screws and clean them up some more. The connections for the bulbs are a bit corroded too. What should I use to clean these up or should I invest in new connectors?

Hard to say without seeing them. My side markers recently fell apart so I replaced them with the Crown ones on Amazon. They work ok but are a bit more rubbery and not as sturdy feeling as stock. But they work. I can't remember why since it's been a few years but I did have to change my driver's side front parking lamp socket. So there is a change you may need to change some stuff.

 

[SirDoopYJ]

That's weird. Doesn't sound like you did anything too complicated to really mess anything up. Did you have any problems at all before any of this?

Exactly lol. I did not notice any blinker trouble before, however they did blink at a pretty quick pace.

Now when I did connect everything back, all my right side lights were dim. My dad said it was a ground and cleaned them and then scraped paint off the grille. All my lights were brighter. That is when we noticed that all but my side blinkers were not working. We checked a few times with engine off, engine on and after a few times all the blinkers started working again. My dad said it was just fathers touch (haha lol.............). I drove it back home and when I checked them again they stopped working and haven't worked since.

 

[machoheadgames]

Exactly lol. I did not notice any blinker trouble before, however they did blink at a pretty quick pace.

Now when I did connect everything back, all my right side lights were dim. My dad said it was a ground and cleaned them and then scraped paint off the grille. All my lights were brighter. That is when we noticed that all but my side blinkers were not working. We checked a few times with engine off, engine on and after a few times all the blinkers started working again. My dad said it was just fathers touch (haha lol.............). I drove it back home and when I checked them again they stopped working and haven't worked since.

Yeah I'd guess you have ground issues because those side markers feed directly off of the power of the front turn signal socket wires. Unless the power circuit from where the side markers splice in, to the front turn signal are BOTH broken (would be very unlikely and coincidental, you probably don't have issues with the actual power. And you could also test that with a test light on the front turn signal wires to see if they are getting power at the same time that the bulbs are not lighting up. It makes no sense that the side markers would have power but the place they pull power from doesn't have power. The signal markers alternate their ground through the power wires so that's why they work. I'm pretty certain that the grounds on the grill don't affect the side markers, although I would have to check to be 100% certain. I'd advise messing with the grounds and playing around with a test light or multimeter to see what you find.

 

[Flyer58]

All these posts and nobody mentioned if you're low on blinker fluid?

Ok kidding aside I had this problem once and after a day of troubleshooting I found the bulbs were bad. Sometimes the filament would connect a work and then after bumps or vibration they would quit. Seriously I don't see where you checked the bulbs. I also use dielectric grease in the light socket.

 

[SirDoopYJ]

So it was this wire that I kept off the battery. I had tested it before, but I guess because of the rusty bolt for my terminal it wasn't making a good contact. So I went ahead and bolted the wire back and my blinkers work as they should. My gauges are also more responsive. Idk if this is custom? Hack job? It feeds from neg to a wire harness on firewall.

 

[machoheadgames]

So it was this wire that I kept off the battery. I had tested it before, but I guess because of the rusty bolt for my terminal it wasn't making a good contact. So I went ahead and bolted the wire back and my blinkers work as they should. My gauges are also more responsive. Idk if this is custom? Hack job? It feeds from neg to a wire harness on firewall.

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Are you saying the wire coming out of that loom tape next do your trans fluid dipstick, is the same wire going into that yellow crimp connector on the battery terminal?

 

[machoheadgames]

So it was this wire that I kept off the battery. I had tested it before, but I guess because of the rusty bolt for my terminal it wasn't making a good contact. So I went ahead and bolted the wire back and my blinkers work as they should. My gauges are also more responsive. Idk if this is custom? Hack job? It feeds from neg to a wire harness on firewall.

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I think I’ve figured it out. From the factory, the negative terminal on the battery splits into two cables. One goes to firewall, one goes to engine block. Then a braided ground strap connects firewall to engine cylinder head. So that is the official triangle that keeps everything on the vehicle grounded to get back to the battery.

It’s looking to me like you have three ground wires at your battery terminal. A big fat one (probably goes to engine block), a skinny one hanging down (can’t see where it goes, maybe was cut by a PO), and then that nasty one with the yellow connector. That was obviously added by a PO. If I’m following it right, then that one is currently running to the firewall. If that’s correct, then it must have been meant to be a replacement for the factory one coming out of the negative terminal, the one which I can’t see where it goes.

Without that yellow one connected, your tub wouldn’t be grounded properly which would explain why your signals were working so inconsistently.

If all of the above was correctly guessed, then I’d say your best interest would be to get a nice new cable made to connect your firewall to your battery terminal, and get rid of the nasty yellow connector one.

 

[SirDoopYJ]

Are you saying the wire coming out of that loom tape next do your trans fluid dipstick, is the same wire going into that yellow crimp connector on the battery terminal?

Haha yes. There are a few things questioned with the Jeep so far, but it is to be expected. I will take a better picture tomorrow. From the terminal itself there are three wires if I remember. One is completely cut though. Electrical is soon to come on this bad boy, which would have been this week, but an unexpected starting issue is taking a priority. Technically electrical, but it was gonna be stuff around the harness and within the dash.

 

[machoheadgames]

Haha yes. There are a few things questioned with the Jeep so far, but it is to be expected. I will take a better picture tomorrow. From the terminal itself there are three wires if I remember. One is completely cut though. Electrical is soon to come on this bad boy, which would have been this week, but an unexpected starting issue is taking a priority. Technically electrical, but it was gonna be stuff around the harness and within the dash.

Yup sounds like you just confirmed my suspicions exactly. The original cable that went to the firewall is the cut one, the yellow connector cable is doing that job now. Without it, the tub has no ground, and the lights worked very poorly. Makes total sense.

Did you get a chance to check voltage at the starter wires yet?

Edit: ALSO, have you tried to start it now that you connected that wire back??? without that, you're probably not getting ground to a lot of items that need ground to run. You might try to start it now with that wire connected. My jeep wouldn't try to start at all if the engine block ground was disconnected. I bet tub is the same way.

 

[SirDoopYJ]

Yup sounds like you just confirmed my suspicions exactly. The original cable that went to the firewall is the cut one, the yellow connector cable is doing that job now. Without it, the tub has no ground, and the lights worked very poorly. Makes total sense.

Did you get a chance to check voltage at the starter wires yet?

Edit: ALSO, have you tried to start it now that you connected that wire back??? without that, you're probably not getting ground to a lot of items that need ground to run. You might try to start it now with that wire connected. My jeep wouldn't try to start at all if the engine block ground was disconnected. I bet tub is the same way.

It was firing up no problem before connecting the wire and was firing up after the wire connected. I drove it alot last week and commuted to work a few days with it. It was Sunday, I drove it a little harder practicing with the 4x4. I went through a little bit of mud and water and the rest was mostly grass trails and going up and down dirt inclines.

I went home to watch some football and during half-time I went out again to play. It started fine, took awhile to crank, but I am use to that. I went through the water and mud again, got stuck, but got right our of it. Went home to finish the game and when it was over to go back out, that is when it would not crank, nothing. All I heard was the fuel pump engage and my engine check light come on.

Sorry, for all the detail lol. Today this is what I have done:
Battery read 12.3V, but it was not under load. Battery is just a year old, so right now it is not the suspect.
The positive terminal on solenoid read 12.3V.
I had someone come and work the ignition while I checked the other two terminals. I checked while key was in on position and then checked while key was turned to crank position. I did not get any reads for the ignition terminal and the the other terminal with the short wire that goes into starter.

As of right now, I am going to go ahead and replace the ignition switch on steering column. There is one in stock for 30 bucks at an Autozone near me. I have the bolts all undone to lower the column, but I couldn't get the plate with the foam on firewall to come off before lowering it. I was tired at this point, and post poned the rest until tomorrow.

 

[machoheadgames]

It was firing up no problem before connecting the wire and was firing up after the wire connected. I drove it alot last week and commuted to work a few days with it. It was Sunday, I drove it a little harder practicing with the 4x4. I went through a little bit of mud and water and the rest was mostly grass trails and going up and down dirt inclines.

I went home to watch some football and during half-time I went out again to play. It started fine, took awhile to crank, but I am use to that. I went through the water and mud again, got stuck, but got right our of it. Went home to finish the game and when it was over to go back out, that is when it would not crank, nothing. All I heard was the fuel pump engage and my engine check light come on.

Sorry, for all the detail lol. Today this is what I have done:
Battery read 12.3V, but it was not under load. Battery is just a year old, so right now it is not the suspect.
The positive terminal on solenoid read 12.3V.
I had someone come and work the ignition while I checked the other two terminals. I checked while key was in on position and then checked while key was turned to crank position. I did not get any reads for the ignition terminal and the the other terminal with the short wire that goes into starter.

As of right now, I am going to go ahead and replace the ignition switch on steering column. There is one in stock for 30 bucks at an Autozone near me. I have the bolts all undone to lower the column, but I couldn't get the plate with the foam on firewall to come off before lowering it. I was tired at this point, and post poned the rest until tomorrow.

Yeah I highly doubt battery is the issue here.

So you checked the starter solenoid wire (the small wire coming from the jeep harness to the starter post) and it had no voltage at all when turning key to crank? If not, then yeah probably an ignition switch issue. Because in that case the Jeep would not be telling the starter to activate.

I'll be curious to see how the ignition switch swap works out. Unless you have a critter eating wires (doubt it), then I bet it will fix the issue.

FYI, starter wire voltage can also be tested at that square plug near the PDC. The ignition wire for the starter runs through that plug and down to the starter.

You also may have a bad starter relay. Have you tried putting the horn relay in its place?