Unable to hold 4th or 5th gear up inclines

YuppieJeep

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My 1988 YJ has a lot of problems but the main one is power and being able to hold 5th or even 4th gear up a little incline that should be just fine in 5th gear. Was wondering what are some things I could look at and change out to help. It is a 258 4.2L straight 6, manual.
 
I'd start with a compression check. If there's something fundamentally wrong with the engine that will tell you. If the rig has lots of miles, plan for a timing chain. I've seen a new timing chain really wake up an old engine. Assuming that's all good, it's all about fuel and ignition tuning, but make sure the engine is sound first.
 
I'd start with a compression check. If there's something fundamentally wrong with the engine that will tell you. If the rig has lots of miles, plan for a timing chain. I've seen a new timing chain really wake up an old engine. Assuming that's all good, it's all about fuel and ignition tuning, but make sure the engine is sound first.

Thank you! I'll let you know how it turns out!
 
The suggestions mentioned are good ones, but I’ll bet a lot of it comes down to likely stock 3.07 gears and those tires I see in your profile pic. They look to be 33’s and 33’s and 3.07 are a piss poor combination for performance....
 
The suggestions mentioned are good ones, but I’ll bet a lot of it comes down to likely stock 3.07 gears and those tires I see in your profile pic. They look to be 33’s and 33’s and 3.07 are a piss poor combination for performance....

X2 to this.

Bigger tires and stock gears is going to make it pretty miserable to drive.
 
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Are there any gears you suggest that would be better to replace stock gears.
For 33’s with a 4.2 that has a decent ignition system, 4.56. It’s got a bit more torque than the 4.0 if it runs properly. For the 4.0 I say 4.88 for 33’s. But if the 4.2 revs good, 4.56 will work well for 33’s.
 
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I've never understood this. My yj had a high-miles 4.0 Auto with 3:55 gears and 31 inch tires. It had no problem getting up hills. With the pedal on the floor I could accelerate up a 6.5% grade, hitting 75mph at the top. It would suck gas like a teenager drinking soda, but it would do it.

This Jeep is the only street wheeler I've had any experience with, so...
 
I've never understood this. My yj had a high-miles 4.0 Auto with 3:55 gears and 31 inch tires. It had no problem getting up hills. With the pedal on the floor I could accelerate up a 6.5% grade, hitting 75mph at the top. It would suck gas like a teenager drinking soda, but it would do it.
You're not taking into account the variables that make the differences. The YJ auto for one thing doesn't have a 5th gear so you immediately have to compare to 4th gear on a manual. This guy has what looks to be 33's, maybe 35's, but looks like 33's. Those are heavier and larger than your 31's. Then consider the fact that he very likely has 3.07 gears, which have 14% less mechanical advantage than 3.55 gears. Add that up and throw him in 5th gear and it is abysmal performance compared to yours.

Put another way, he's doing 1850 rpm at 75 while yours would be around 3100 rpm at 75. That's an insane difference.
 
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Got it, thanks. A jump from 3:07 to 4:56 just seemed huge, and I hear about folks doing it all the time. I never liked how fast my engine was spinning at highway speeds. It never seemed comfortable up at the higher RPM and as I noted got truly dismal mileage. I can't imagine spinning that engine fast enough to hit highway speeds with stock tires.
 
Got it, thanks. A jump from 3:07 to 4:56 just seemed huge, and I hear about folks doing it all the time. I never liked how fast my engine was spinning at highway speeds. It never seemed comfortable up at the higher RPM and as I noted got truly dismal mileage. I can't imagine spinning that engine fast enough to hit highway speeds with stock tires.
Yeah a big part of that is the noise. The 4.0 is loud, so revving it is quite audible. Especially the clutch fan. Geez, that thing moves a lot of air and is proud of doing so. Part of it is just the general condition of the engine, but most of it is just the noise. I can rev mine all day long and it works just fine. Not sure about your mpg sitch, but I've driven mine at 65 in 4th gear (4.10, 31's, 3150 rpm) and I can easily still get 17 mpg doing so. At highway speed it's not even loud doing that.

Your torque converter was probably unlocked going up those hills though which adds 300 rpm on top of what I stated, which also spins the fan louder, and you would have to be in the throttle a bit more, helping to drink gas.

For what it's worth, when I was stock with 3.55's and added 31" tires, my mileage was worse than it has ever been with 4.10. Surprising, but it all worked out great. 5th gear at 70 cruises around 2700. I'm going for 4.88 and 33's next.
 
Heh. It's all moot now. The 4.0 drivetrain is sitting on the floor, and the yj is sporting a 4.3L and 700R4. This setup loves my current gearing. Don't have a MPG yet, but it's going to be good.
 
You're not taking into account the variables that make the differences. The YJ auto for one thing doesn't have a 5th gear so you immediately have to compare to 4th gear on a manual. This guy has what looks to be 33's, maybe 35's, but looks like 33's. Those are heavier and larger than your 31's. Then consider the fact that he very likely has 3.07 gears, which have 14% less mechanical advantage than 3.55 gears. Add that up and throw him in 5th gear and it is abysmal performance compared to yours.

Put another way, he's doing 1850 rpm at 75 while yours would be around 3100 rpm at 75. That's an insane difference.
Yeah that's another problem, on a flat road with pedal all the way down max speed is around 65. Could be the big tires and stock gears and crappy carburetor. And with the gears you suggested is that just for the rear or front or both?
 
Yeah that's another problem, on a flat road with pedal all the way down max speed is around 65. Could be the big tires and stock gears and crappy carburetor. And with the gears you suggested is that just for the rear or front or both?
It has to be for both or else you’d blow up the transfer case in 4WD.

For the carburetor issue, Howell makes a nice throttle body injection kit you could install. Would fix all those pesky carb problems. Mopar used to make kits but they don’t have any left for manuals anymore.
 
Just be grateful you don't have a 42RLE automatic that was in the later TJs. You can gear those as deep as you want and they still suck :ROFLMAO:

Mine with the 42RLE and 35s with 5.38 gears still sucked ass!
 
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Just be grateful you don't have a 42RLE automatic that was in the later TJs. You can gear those as deep as you want and they still suck :ROFLMAO:

Mine with the 42RLE and 35s with 5.38 gears still sucked ass!
I don’t understand why people over there in the TJ world are still only gearing Rubi’s on 33’s to 5.13. They should go to 5.38 and IMO, anybody wanting 35’s needs to swap lockers and run 5.89. Of course, Rubi only for that to work. Non Rubi 42RLE are still screwed.
 
I don’t understand why people over there in the TJ world are still only gearing Rubi’s on 33’s to 5.13. They should go to 5.38 and IMO, anybody wanting 35’s needs to swap lockers and run 5.89. Of course, Rubi only for that to work. Non Rubi 42RLE are still screwed.

I don't understand either. With that 42RLE you just can't gear deep enough.

It's my understanding though that even with lockers on the Rubicons, you still can't run anything deeper than a 5.38. I thought you needed entirely new axles for that. Maybe I'm wrong though.
 
I don't understand either. With that 42RLE you just can't gear deep enough.

It's my understanding though that even with lockers on the Rubicons, you still can't run anything deeper than a 5.38. I thought you needed entirely new axles for that. Maybe I'm wrong though.
Not true. It's just a dana 44 like anything else. The factory lockers are the problem which is why Revolution specifically developed 5.38 for them because those lockers require a thick cut gear. Get rid of the factory locker and run any other locker with the carrier designed for 3.92+ gears, and then 5.89 can be installed to those carriers/lockers. The thing is, this can only be done on a TJ Rubi with factory axles, since it's the only TJ with 44/44 setup, and both factory lockers have to be gotten rid of.

If I bought one of those Jeeps with that POS trans (I wouldn't, but if I did), I would ditch the factory lockers to run 5.89, eaton e-lockers, and 35's for sure. That setup would still be 2800 at 70ish. Pretty fuckin good for 35" tires and way more acceleration power to boot.
 
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Not true. It's just a dana 44 like anything else. The factory lockers are the problem which is why Revolution specifically developed 5.38 for them because those lockers require a thick cut gear. Get rid of the factory locker and run any other locker with the carrier designed for 3.92+ gears, and then 5.89 can be installed to those carriers/lockers. The thing is, this can only be done on a TJ Rubi with factory axles, since it's the only TJ with 44/44 setup, and both factory lockers have to be gotten rid of.

If I bought one of those Jeeps with that POS trans (I wouldn't, but if I did), I would ditch the factory lockers to run 5.89, eaton e-lockers, and 35's for sure. That setup would still be 2800 at 70ish. Pretty fuckin good for 35" tires and way more acceleration power to boot.

Seriously? I never knew that. I had the factory lockers in my last 2005 Rubicon. Had I known that at the time I re-geared, I would have swapped them out for ARBs and geared even deeper. That 42RLE is the biggest piece of junk ever put in a Jeep. I mean there are some other bad transmissions out there (the AW4 comes to mind), but that 42RLE is just above and beyond shitty. That .69 OD gear ratio just absolutely kills it.

I talked to every performance transmission shop I could find, and every single one of them told me (for whatever reason or another), that that overdrive gear ratio cannot be changed. I finally said fuck this and got a manual transmission. Yes, it's harder in the very technical off-road situations, but that's something I'm willing to deal with considering how much better it is at everything else.
 
Seriously? I never knew that. I had the factory lockers in my last 2005 Rubicon. Had I known that at the time I re-geared, I would have swapped them out for ARBs and geared even deeper. That 42RLE is the biggest piece of junk ever put in a Jeep. I mean there are some other bad transmissions out there (the AW4 comes to mind), but that 42RLE is just above and beyond shitty. That .69 OD gear ratio just absolutely kills it.

I talked to every performance transmission shop I could find, and every single one of them told me (for whatever reason or another), that that overdrive gear ratio cannot be changed. I finally said fuck this and got a manual transmission. Yes, it's harder in the very technical off-road situations, but that's something I'm willing to deal with considering how much better it is at everything else.
I mean it would be expensive since it requires two lockers and both Eaton and ARB will be 900+ per axle, not to mention the air compressor on an ARB. Factory all that in with the price of the gears and it gets expensive, but there are indeed 5.89 gears straight from Rev that fit those axles with different carriers. Rev does not say "made for Rubicon TJ" because they are not. They are just normal Dana 44 5.89 gears like anything else that fits a TJ Rubi, only once the factory lockers are gotten rid of.

No, OD can not be changed in the 42 and obviously that OD does not belong in a Wrangler really, especially with all the harmonic vibe issues 5.xx+ gears can cause. But, you can have a beast of a crawler and a good highway cruiser that has pretty good acceleration if those deep gears are installed. The AW4 is a decent unit itself but in a Wrangler it really does not fit well for the demands. It needs really low gears as well. It works real well in the XJ, although I'd still seek out a manual XJ if I were on the hunt, which I sorta am, but never see any good 97+ manual ones that aren't 12,000 bucks or more.

Enjoy the manual and don't pay too much attention to the Johnson Valley wheelers who talk as if an auto is the only transmission worth owning. They have their place, JV is not really that place. For cruising around town, pure fun driving, and ultimate reliability, you can not beat the manual. Some of those guys who talk down on certain things *ahem* manuals and TrueTracs absolutely need to be taken with a grain of salt. Otherwise you will end up building a rig for the necessity of others and not what fits you. For me, what fits is a manual with a TrueTrac.