I am having a 2.5" leaf spring kit from rough country put on with N3 shocks. Just the $500 kit. I wanted to see if anybody had any recommendations of maybe some upgraded bushings or anything else that I can have done while I am already paying for the labor for them to be up under there. Thanks in advance.
Spring Lift and New Shocks Question
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If you want this to be a more permanent install, have the installing shop cut out the RC bushings and put in some poly bushings with bolt sleeves. RC springs use 1.5” bushings at the frame end and 1.25” at the shackle end. RC bushings are garbage for sure, mine were dead and letting the axles walk at like 1.5 years. The rubber basically just completely broke apart into several chunks.
I would HIGHLY recommend 2 of these kits: Rubicon express bushings
one kit will do two springs including the frame, so this would get you all new bushings/sleeves at every suspension bushing location. Would be highly worth it over the rough country crap bushings.
And actually, read the reviews of those. Someone used them for this exact purpose, lol.
one kit will do two springs including the frame, so this would get you all new bushings/sleeves at every suspension bushing location. Would be highly worth it over the rough country crap bushings.
And actually, read the reviews of those. Someone used them for this exact purpose, lol.
OME bushings are only for OME springs and shackles, so no don’t do those.
Also, you may look at some sets of shackles by RE while you’re having them do the work.
BTW, what is your rear driveshaft setup? RC springs will have fat 6° shims on them. Those are meant for a SYE and double cardan shaft. If you have a stock driveshaft still, you really need to delete those shims, put on 2° shims, and do the RC transfer case drop.
Ok, thank you. I have a 1990 islander automatic 4.2 and I believe she is completely stock outside of the lift kit I am about to do. So what are you recommending I do? This jeep will not see any offroading action. Just a driver for me around town.
Easiest bet would be buy a 2° steel shim kit from rubicon express, a transfer case drop from rough country, and give them to the installers.
You can opt to just remove the shims from the springs, and do no tcase drop and no shims, but that will wear u-joints out faster from much increased operating angles.
Would you mind linking me to the parts and explaining to me why I need to do those 2 things as well. Thank you. Just so I can rationalize the extra spending. Also the shackles you recommend please. I am thinking of doing the steering stabilizer as well if you have any recommendations on that. I don't have a problem spending the money on products that will increase the ride on this thing.
2.5° shims
RC T-Case Drop
with the new lift height, the super short stock driveshaft u-joints see big changes in angle compared to stock. This can cause vibrations and definitely wear them out faster, whereas in stock form, they rarely ever wear out at all, like 100K+ miles usually.
the RC springs come with 6° shims which tilts the axle way back and aims the pinion up at the transfer case. This is correct for an aftermarket driveshaft, but not for a stock driveshaft, so those need to be removed no matter what.
the transfer case drop kit is two spacer bars you install between the transfer case skid plate and the frame. It lowers the transfer case to help with angles and bring your driveline back closer to stock. It lowers it about an inch roughly. This changes the angle of the transfer case output to where it’s no longer parallel to the axle input (pinion yoke), so you then need to install 2.5° shims on the springs to be proper with your angles. The transfer case drop changes the transfer case angle by about 2-3°, so 2.5° shims correct the axle angle properly.
lifting a vehicle changes a lot of stuff. They don’t include a pitman arm but your steering feel will benefit greatly
From one too, and you either need to delete the front track bar or use a track bar relocation bracket. Get rid of the rear track bar.
Is it ok that the Transfer case drop kit you recommended is for 4-6" lift when mine is 2.5? Or is that the exact that you recommend. I've read that about the track bars what does that do to the ride? And is the Pitman arm replacing a factory one or is that just an addition.
Yes, they are out of their minds if they think it only benefits 4-6” lifts. 4-6” lifts don’t even work well enough with a transfer case drop, they need the different driveshaft setup I mention before.
track bars are attached to the frame and the axle, keeps the axle from moving side to side. Not really an issue on leaf springs except on the front axle under steering conditions, with tall lifts. The rear axle you can remove the track bar and you will never miss it. The front track bar is more noticeable although you would get used to not having it. Rough country doesn’t include anything to keep it, they just tell you to hook it back up which is ridiculous, as it’s too short for a lifted Jeep so it pulls your springs sideways which pulls the axle over and binds the suspension. So the choice really is to get rid of it completely, or add an extension bracket. I think rubicon express sells extension brackets. They bolt into the track bar bracket on the axle and then you bolt your track bar to the relocation bracket.
you have a stock pitman arm designed for stock height. Lift the suspension and it brings the steering drag link up with it. Angles on steering hurts their performance and overall steering feel. The new pitman arm will drop your steering back down 1-1.5”, getting it closer to stock. Still not perfect but not a lot you can do about that.
All of that makes sense. Can you link the correct pitman arm that you think for my application, and I will look for the extension bracket right now. And what shackles do you recommend?
Track bar bracket
Pitman arm
Shackles are a tough choice. You could stick to stock honestly, just rub some grease on all the bushings before installing, then bolt on the stock shackles and leave it alone.
rubicon express 4” shackles are basically a beefy version of stock. They will come with a bunch of useless bushings (assuming you buy the other bushing kit) but they won’t come with frame bushings, so would still want the bushing kit. There’s nothing really wrong with the stock shackles though especially if you’re keeping the front track bar.
RE 4” Shackles
Macho is 100% correct in his recommendations on covering the bases thoroughly. Im guessing your feeling like what!!!... so much for just a basic lift kit and its lower cost. You will find many of us do not run the track bars,sway bar, lowered pitman arm or a steering stabilizer. They can be added later if funds have become a issue. It is safe to operate without these items,nothing will break or self destruct, however it will handle different than stock even with just the lift and bigger tires if your going that route as well. I do not run any of the above except the dropped pitman arm after a year of without and do run down the highway at 70 or whatever it dictates speed wise. Just keep in mind if this is the first Jeep for you,they are a different animal ride,cornering and handling wise.
it’s true, none of it is really “required”, although I shared most of it for the best results afterward, especially for someone not doing the install work. Would hate to pay a shop to do stuff multiple times, such as going back and adding the shims for a transfer case drop later, etc.
I would definitely suggest the pitman arm for handling reasons. It just plain steers better with it. And for a dedicated road driver, there is almost no good reason to not spend the $30 for a track bar bracket to retain the front track bar. I absolutely would NOT suggest keeping the track bar without
The bracket, since it will pull the axle over and kill the bushings even
The rest of it is mainly tying up loose ends. Would hate for The bushings to die in a year and pay labor to change them. Knowing RC and my experience and others, those will probably not last all that long. Driveline may be perfectly fine without the drop or shims. I do highly recommend removing the 6° shims that come with the springs though, they will absolutely screw up the driveshaft angles, been there done that.
however, I can certainly see the irony of buying one of the lowest cost kits on the market and then spending another Kit’s worth or Money in add ons for all the other crap.
this mainly stems from me years ago as a kid, installed the lift, and had no clue why my Jeep felt so “off” in so many ways. Took a while for me to figure out the magic to fix mine up in all aspects. The first thing I should have done was pull the 6° shims, but I didn’t know any better back then.
I would definitely suggest the pitman arm for handling reasons. It just plain steers better with it. And for a dedicated road driver, there is almost no good reason to not spend the $30 for a track bar bracket to retain the front track bar. I absolutely would NOT suggest keeping the track bar without
The bracket, since it will pull the axle over and kill the bushings even
The rest of it is mainly tying up loose ends. Would hate for The bushings to die in a year and pay labor to change them. Knowing RC and my experience and others, those will probably not last all that long. Driveline may be perfectly fine without the drop or shims. I do highly recommend removing the 6° shims that come with the springs though, they will absolutely screw up the driveshaft angles, been there done that.
however, I can certainly see the irony of buying one of the lowest cost kits on the market and then spending another Kit’s worth or Money in add ons for all the other crap.
this mainly stems from me years ago as a kid, installed the lift, and had no clue why my Jeep felt so “off” in so many ways. Took a while for me to figure out the magic to fix mine up in all aspects. The first thing I should have done was pull the 6° shims, but I didn’t know any better back then.
You guys are incredibly informative and have educated me so much on this stuff already. Here is the quote I got with him already doing the leafspring lift kit with shocks.
"As far as your additional parts,
I would advise against the poly bushings as they are more likely to squeak from debris which is inevitable. However I have included them in the breakdown listed below. Please advise which parts you would like to move forward with. Again, I thank you for your support as a loyal customer.
Steering Stabilizer, Rough Country N3- $34.99 plus $47.50 install
Drop Pitman arm- $65.99 plus $95 install
Trackbar relocation bracket- $20.99 plus $47.50 install
2.5 degree shims- $33.99 plus no install since original lift kit would have required installing alternate degree shims.
Transfer case drop bracket- $54.99 plus $332.50 install
All prices are listed without tax included. All applicable taxes will be additional."
I was kinda leaning towards doing the stabilizer, trackbar relocation, 2.5 degree shims, and bearings. Unless you can convince me to go ahead and do the Pitman arm. I don't plan on doing the transfer case drop as that price is ridiculous, unless ofcourse the transfer case has a leak while they have it up in the air and could combine that labor. Let me know your thoughts or if there is anything else that is recommended that I add. I do plan on doing the bushings. Please advise on any squeaking.
I’ve had poly bushings in some locations for 8 years…never a squeak. Poly on all locations for 5 years, also no squeak. I have nothing against rubber, the factory stuff was Clevite brand and they were excellent. In fact my frame bushings were not even bad at all when I pulled them to put in poly. However, I do have big problems with RC rubber, which falls apart. And the worst part is you will not know unless you have handling issues and finally take it apart to look. The shackles will cover up any visible problems. I have seen countless folks with bushing issues, it’s like the number one RC complaint. Lots of people say they don’t have problems, but lots of those also are not aware they have problems. You could always skip them for now and do it later if you want, up to you. Mine were dead in about a year, I changed them at 2. I could feel the rear axle walking side to side on tight turns.
the pitman arm and track bar bracket go hand in hand. When you raise the track bar at the axle, you need to use the drop pitman arm to the same drop amount as the track bar was lifted up. This will keep them parallel which is what needs to be the case for best handling. this will also keep you closest to the stock quality steering feel, which is a lot better than typical lifted feel. If you don’t do the pitman arm, you’re better off without the track bar at all or else the track bar will be fighting your steering on bumps, otherwise known as “bump steer”, because the two linkages will not be parallel and will follow different arcs. I don’t understand why they want $47 to install the track bar bracket, as they would have to disconnect the track bar from the axle regardless during the lift process. The only difference is tightening one bolt for the bracket, then you bolt the bar to the bracket rather than the axle mount. $47 for one bolt is a lot, but whatever I guess.
holy cow, the transfer case drop install is absurd. The 2.5° pinion shims go hand in hand with the tcase drop. You don’t really want one without the other. Do you have a Jack you could use? If I were you I’d tell them to install the shims, but then order the tcase drop myself and install it myself. It’s really quite easy to do. I certainly would not pay their labor. Their labor is probably planning for rusted out bolts that break in the frame, which means way more work. If I were you, I’d remove each transfer case skid plate bolt one by one (remove all the way, then reinstall with anti seize and torque to 50). If you can remove each one without them getting stuck, and have a Jack, I’d 100% say do the tcase drop yourself. Otherwise, tell them to remove the shims off the springs, install the springs, and leave the transfer case alone at ride height.
It sucks that you’re at the mercy of shop labor, which really makes doing all this a lot more unreasonable feeling. Their prices aren’t crazy for the most part but it certainly adds up.
I would skip the steering stabilizer completely, a cheapo one from Monroe on Amazon is perfect for $25 and you can do that yourself. Your existing one is probably not even bad as is and the rough country is nothing special, I’d ditch that to use the money for something else from the list. In most cases, the fancy brand steering dampers are actually repainted Monroes.
the pitman arm and track bar bracket go hand in hand. When you raise the track bar at the axle, you need to use the drop pitman arm to the same drop amount as the track bar was lifted up. This will keep them parallel which is what needs to be the case for best handling. this will also keep you closest to the stock quality steering feel, which is a lot better than typical lifted feel. If you don’t do the pitman arm, you’re better off without the track bar at all or else the track bar will be fighting your steering on bumps, otherwise known as “bump steer”, because the two linkages will not be parallel and will follow different arcs. I don’t understand why they want $47 to install the track bar bracket, as they would have to disconnect the track bar from the axle regardless during the lift process. The only difference is tightening one bolt for the bracket, then you bolt the bar to the bracket rather than the axle mount. $47 for one bolt is a lot, but whatever I guess.
holy cow, the transfer case drop install is absurd. The 2.5° pinion shims go hand in hand with the tcase drop. You don’t really want one without the other. Do you have a Jack you could use? If I were you I’d tell them to install the shims, but then order the tcase drop myself and install it myself. It’s really quite easy to do. I certainly would not pay their labor. Their labor is probably planning for rusted out bolts that break in the frame, which means way more work. If I were you, I’d remove each transfer case skid plate bolt one by one (remove all the way, then reinstall with anti seize and torque to 50). If you can remove each one without them getting stuck, and have a Jack, I’d 100% say do the tcase drop yourself. Otherwise, tell them to remove the shims off the springs, install the springs, and leave the transfer case alone at ride height.
It sucks that you’re at the mercy of shop labor, which really makes doing all this a lot more unreasonable feeling. Their prices aren’t crazy for the most part but it certainly adds up.
I would skip the steering stabilizer completely, a cheapo one from Monroe on Amazon is perfect for $25 and you can do that yourself. Your existing one is probably not even bad as is and the rough country is nothing special, I’d ditch that to use the money for something else from the list. In most cases, the fancy brand steering dampers are actually repainted Monroes.
I just noticed you said you plan on doing the bushings, good. As I said in my previous post, absolutely no squeaks on my end in 8 years so I think they’re fine. I did have some squeaking from my RC springs themselves on bumps but eventually that went away on its own. I know it was the springs because I sprayed between all the leaves with WD40 and it stopped. Then it came back of course after all that dried up, but I left it and eventually I noticed no more squeaks. But the bushings have always been fine.
it’s important to grease them with white lithium grease upon install. After that I’ve never really done any regreasing, there is nowhere for it to go except to leak out and I haven’t had any problems with that, so mine have stayed nice and greased long term no problem. No noise as a result.
it’s important to grease them with white lithium grease upon install. After that I’ve never really done any regreasing, there is nowhere for it to go except to leak out and I haven’t had any problems with that, so mine have stayed nice and greased long term no problem. No noise as a result.
Thank you, I've taken those suggestions and had him adjust the invoice for next weeks worth. Anything else that I can get done for a value under there while it is still up in the air? What if they find a transfer case leak would it then make it worth it to go ahead and do the shims?
Not really that I can think of, unless you have any specific problems you’ve noticed that may need closer looking at. That will be a pretty thorough suspension refresh.