Need big brakes

Jawgee

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Got 33's and need more stopping power. Can't find anything online for YJ's. Do I have to modify a later year model to get bigger rotors and calipers? Thank ye
 
Are TJ front brakes interchangeable onto the YJ?
TJ brakes ARE YJ brakes at the wheels. Starting with the 90 YJ they started the same design that carried onto the TJ. The differences on YJs are that a single diaphragm brake booster and cast iron MC were used 90-94 on 4.0s and 90-95 on 2.5s. The 95 4.0 received a dual diaphragm booster similar to a TJ but it was a different part.

Brakes at the wheels are all the same though from 90 and later. So Vanco is definitely an option, but that limits you to crappy stock YJ steering which gets worse and worse the higher you lift the suspension. Not an issue for a 2.5” lift with a drop pitman arm, but go much higher than that and it starts to handle really poorly real quick. Unfortunately we didn’t get the much better TJ steering.
 
Got 33's and need more stopping power. Can't find anything online for YJ's. Do I have to modify a later year model to get bigger rotors and calipers? Thank ye
Don’t have a ton of options but some do exist. Depends on year though so you may wanna post that up before anybody lists solutions.
 
TJ brakes ARE YJ brakes at the wheels. Starting with the 90 YJ they started the same design that carried onto the TJ. The differences on YJs are that a single diaphragm brake booster and cast iron MC were used 90-94 on 4.0s and 90-95 on 2.5s. The 95 4.0 received a dual diaphragm booster similar to a TJ but it was a different part.

Brakes at the wheels are all the same though from 90 and later. So Vanco is definitely an option, but that limits you to crappy stock YJ steering which gets worse and worse the higher you lift the suspension. Not an issue for a 2.5” lift with a drop pitman arm, but go much higher than that and it starts to handle really poorly real quick. Unfortunately we didn’t get the much better TJ steering.
What exactly does vanco make? Brake boosters? Would like bigger rotors and calipers but can't find any for the yj but if a brake booster would then I'm interested
 
TJ brakes ARE YJ brakes at the wheels. Starting with the 90 YJ they started the same design that carried onto the TJ. The differences on YJs are that a single diaphragm brake booster and cast iron MC were used 90-94 on 4.0s and 90-95 on 2.5s. The 95 4.0 received a dual diaphragm booster similar to a TJ but it was a different part.

Brakes at the wheels are all the same though from 90 and later. So Vanco is definitely an option, but that limits you to crappy stock YJ steering which gets worse and worse the higher you lift the suspension. Not an issue for a 2.5” lift with a drop pitman arm, but go much higher than that and it starts to handle really poorly real quick. Unfortunately we didn’t get the much better TJ steering.
Got it, this is good info as I wasn't aware.

I had the 16" Vanco brake kit on my first TJ, and the 17" Vanco brake kit on my last TJ, and both provided outstanding braking performance.

The steering thing though, that's not good. I'm sure there are options for dealing with the steering, just not cheap I suspect?
 
Most BMB kits are good for 1990-2006 jeeps. Here is the list of kits:

If you don't plan to go larger than 33s, stick with the 15" kit or even just overhaul the stock brakes and add BMB pads. The 15/16" kits are both great for 35s. They come with larger calipers, rotors, and knuckles.

Give the phone number on the site a call if you have any questions. I don't think @mrblaine has an account here like on the TJ forum, but he will answer almost any question if you give him a call.

I personally bought the Super 16 kit from BMB/Blaine for my TJ, and am very happy with it. Though it is significant overkill for my 35s, and would be way too much for 33s.
 
What exactly does vanco make? Brake boosters? Would like bigger rotors and calipers but can't find any for the yj but if a brake booster would then I'm interested
The Vanco kit sold mostly by Black Magic Brakes upgrades the brakes at the wheels to dual piston calipers and larger rotors, as well as very grippy pads that aren't too quick to grab. It basically gives you full control of your brakes. Kit comes with two steering knuckles, two rotors, two calipers, pads, and some hardware.
 
It's a 94. Someone told me slotted and drilled rotors with ceramic pads would help. What you think
Reason I asked about year is to determine what options you actually have. A 94 has a single diaphragm booster and a cast iron 1" bore master cylinder.

Options:

1. 1995 4.0 Booster Swap - I did this one. I spent about $400 on a 95 4.0 master cylinder, booster, and some brake lines and fittings. Overall it made my pedal softer, not really more powerful though. I would say it was not worth the money or time at all. Not to mention that application (95, 4.0 only) is the only application that used those two parts. So they are pretty rare, and have been for a while and likely won't be around much longer. So if you do the swap and then have booster trouble later, you may have trouble finding the parts.

2. Vanco kit - Very good kit, makes the brakes basically perfect, the downside is that you're stuck on stock steering. If you have a relatively low lift and a drop pitman arm, no big deal. If you're lifted a bunch and hate the way it handles, the Vanco will make it harder to fix that. I did run the Vanco 15" kit for 4 years. Ran it with the 95 booster. In an effort to fix my steering for my 3.5" BDS lift, I ditched it for option 3.

3. WJ knuckles - this swap is NOT for the faint of heart. It is very expensive, has significant downfalls, and for me honestly has not been worth it at all. This setup you grab knuckles out of a Grand Cherokee WJ (1999-2004), weld spacers onto them to space the unit bearings out appropriately. The passenger knuckle has an arm to mount the drag link to. This fixes the steering to have no dead spot like the factory YJ steering linkage does. This setup also includes same size calipers as the Vanco kit and mounts those calipers in the 16" kit location. It also uses 12.01" rotors like the Vanco 16" kit does. So, it upgrades the brakes significantly. The problems I've had with it are that my lift is too low for the drag link angle to be proper, the WJ linkage blocks me from being able to run a sway bar, the brake setup requires 16" rims which really limits tire selection and C load range tires. I could go to 17's but I only want 33's long term, which is a ridiculous tire size to put on a 17" rim, especially because there are barely any load range c tires for 33/17's also. Lastly I no matter what I do, I can't get it to handle very well either. It has no dead spot which is lovely, but that does no good if it's still all over the road because I can't get it to steer smoothly and not be darty. I'm sort of thinking it's related to the factory Ackermann angle they built into the knuckles for the longer GC WJ wheelbase, but I'm not sure.

4. A cheaper alternative is black magic brake pads and new rotors from BMB. This is typically good enough to have enough stopping power to handle 33's and below. It's just a simple brake replacement, nothing too crazy.

Don't waste your time on drilled/slotted rotors or anything from the brand Power Stop. I played around with the cross drilled and slotted game and it was not worth it at all. There was no difference. I don't know your tire size but I bet the plain BMB pads and rotors are enough to set you up well. Call BMB and have a chat with Blaine. He will help you as much as he can and believe it or not will tell you not to buy his stuff if he doesn't think it suits your application. He is a genuine, good guy who likes to help others build their rigs and he knows an astounding amount of info about brakes.
 
Got it, this is good info as I wasn't aware.

I had the 16" Vanco brake kit on my first TJ, and the 17" Vanco brake kit on my last TJ, and both provided outstanding braking performance.

The steering thing though, that's not good. I'm sure there are options for dealing with the steering, just not cheap I suspect?

That's the thing, there aren't really any good options. You can go to beefier stuff like 1-ton tie rod ends or whatever from RuffStuff/Barnes/etc., but they still all base off of the flawed inverted-t design that inherently has dead spot when the tie rod rolls to the limit. The only solution to fix the dead spot is to get the drag link as flat as possible (so mounting tie rod ends over the knuckle on higher lifted YJs), or keeping lift mild (2.5" or less) and using drop pitman arm. Or, on a tall lift doing OTK tie rod ends as well as using a pitman arm to keep that higher drag link flat still. Or like I mentioned above, the WJ swap.

For me, I decided I didn't want to go with 35's anymore nor the lift required to run them. I've decided 33's and a nice riding 2.5" OME suspension are the max this jeep will ever see. So, I am yanking the WJ setup, going back to stock steering + a drop pitman arm, and likely Vanco brakes again. because I hate the stock brake setup. at least in that setup though, it will ride nice, steer decently enough (still some dead spot but minor), and will brake well and overall be about as good as a YJ can possibly be in stock-ish form.
 
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That's the thing, there aren't really any good options. You can go to beefier stuff like 1-ton tie rod ends or whatever from RuffStuff/Barnes/etc., but they still all base off of the flawed inverted-t design that inherently has dead spot when the tie rod rolls to the limit. The only solution to fix the dead spot is to get the drag link as flat as possible (so mounting tie rod ends over the knuckle on higher lifted YJs), or keeping lift mild (2.5" or less) and using drop pitman arm. Or, on a tall lift doing OTK tie rod ends as well as using a pitman arm to keep that higher drag link flat still. Or like I mentioned above, the WJ swap.

For me, I decided I didn't want to go with 35's anymore nor the lift required to run them. I've decided 33's and a nice riding 2.5" OME suspension are the max this jeep will ever see. So, I am yanking the WJ setup, going back to stock steering + a drop pitman arm, and likely Vanco brakes again. because I hate the stock brake setup. at least in that setup though, it will ride nice, steer decently enough (still some dead spot but minor), and will brake well and overall be about as good as a YJ can possibly be in stock-ish form.

I don't blame you there one bit. Even running 35s properly on a TJ is a big deal in terms of the parts needed to make it work and work well.

I've seen a lot of issues with TJs and steering too, mostly because people assume that a crossover steering setup is better, then convert to one, only to have all sorts of issues like the dead-spot you mentioned. Of course with the TJ you can get the Currie Currectlync which is the factory Haltenberger steering design and works perfect on a stock width axle.

The Vanco brakes are a great option, and as far as Jeeps go, the best option.

I guess this just goes to show that the bigger you go, the more of a rabbit hole you go down, which I can attest to from personal experience. I think I had close to 40k into my last TJ build which didn't even include the cost of the vehicle itself.
 
I don't blame you there one bit. Even running 35s properly on a TJ is a big deal in terms of the parts needed to make it work and work well.

I've seen a lot of issues with TJs and steering too, mostly because people assume that a crossover steering setup is better, then convert to one, only to have all sorts of issues like the dead-spot you mentioned. Of course with the TJ you can get the Currie Currectlync which is the factory Haltenberger steering design and works perfect on a stock width axle.

The Vanco brakes are a great option, and as far as Jeeps go, the best option.

I guess this just goes to show that the bigger you go, the more of a rabbit hole you go down, which I can attest to from personal experience. I think I had close to 40k into my last TJ build which didn't even include the cost of the vehicle itself.
Crossover doesn’t have any dead spot, it’s just been really difficult for me to make the WJ crossover setup work properly on my YJ. It screeches the tires bad on tight turns and feels very darty on road.

Inverted-T is the one with dead spot and factory is inverted-t. Factory had some dead spot even when brand new. Adding a track bar helped to mask it a bit which is one of the reasons Jeep added track bars to YJs contrary to the leaf sprung CJs that didn’t have them. Adding a lift and removing the track bar, there will be dead spot and the taller the lift, the worse it gets. . So it pretty much comes down to making stock work and accepting the dead spot it has (hopefully which you can minimize as much as possible but will still be there some)....or you can swap out for a whole different setup like I did with the WJ knuckles, which I couldn’t get to work right.

Me personally, a mild lift with a drop pitman arm will get the dead spot minimal enough that I think I’ll be able to live with it long term.

I drove on a 2.5” lift with stock pitman and no track bar for several years. It had noticeable dead spot and was still manageable although undesirable. I think a drop pitman arm will get it to good enough. Contrary to TJs, drop pitman arms are not bad guys on YJs.
 
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Crossover doesn’t have any dead spot, it’s just been really difficult for me to make the WJ crossover setup work properly on my YJ. It screeches the tires bad on tight turns and feels very darty on road.

Inverted-T is the one with dead spot and factory is inverted-t. Factory had some dead spot even when brand new. Adding a track bar helped to mask it a bit which is one of the reasons Jeep added track bars to YJs contrary to the leaf sprung CJs that didn’t have them. Adding a lift and removing the track bar, there will be dead spot and the taller the lift, the worse it gets. . So it pretty much comes down to making stock work and accepting the dead spot it has (hopefully which you can minimize as much as possible but will still be there some)....or you can swap out for a whole different setup like I did with the WJ knuckles, which I couldn’t get to work right.

Me personally, a mild lift with a drop pitman arm will get the dead spot minimal enough that I think I’ll be able to live with it long term.

I drove on a 2.5” lift with stock pitman and no track bar for several years. It had noticeable dead spot and was still manageable although undesirable. I think a drop pitman arm will get it to good enough. Contrary to TJs, drop pitman arms are not bad guys on YJs.

Makes a lot of sense. There's a lot different on TJs than YJs, and I'm still learning, since I've owned primarily TJs. On the TJs if you convert to crossover steering, it opens up the potential for a lot of steering related issues, which is why most will stick with the Haltenberger factory style design. Of course if you go to a wider axle (i.e. RockJocks), then crossover is really your best bet.

However, I do recall a lot of issues on the earlier JK models due to the engineers having switched to crossover style steering. They worked a lot of them out, and I believe a lot were probably also related to people lifting them and modifying them, which of course creates problems itself.

This is good information to know though, as I didn't know a lot of it, such as the dropped pitman arms. On TJs those are a big no-no, unless you pair them with a dropped track bar bracket, but at that point it's just a poorly engineered lift to begin with, as neither is necessary, especially at the common lift heights of 4-5" or so.
 
Get the Black Magic/Vanco stuff and you’ll be super happy.

A hydroboost setup would increasing your stopping power drastically. It could easily be retrofitted by someone who knows and understands brakes.
 
I drove on a 2.5” lift with stock pitman and no track bar for several years. It had noticeable dead spot and was still manageable although undesirable. I think a drop pitman arm will get it to good enough. Contrary to TJs, drop pitman arms are not bad guys on YJs.

Sorry to derail the convo from the brakes (i have the BMB rotors/pads and they work very well), but I have I'm curious what dropped pitman arm you plan on using? I have the 2.5" OME lift and most pitman arms I see are for 3"+ of lift. There is one that says 2.5"-6" but that's a huge range and makes me think the drop is very drastic for a 2.5" lift.
 
Sorry to derail the convo from the brakes (i have the BMB rotors/pads and they work very well), but I have I'm curious what dropped pitman arm you plan on using? I have the 2.5" OME lift and most pitman arms I see are for 3"+ of lift. There is one that says 2.5"-6" but that's a huge range and makes me think the drop is very drastic for a 2.5" lift.
Virtually all the drop pitmans are the same length which I haven't measured but I believe is about 1.5-2" of drop. I have never understood why they label them the way they do, but I can promise you on a 3.5" lift, the drop pitman arm didn't get my steering even close to being back to stock. So I'd say it should be safe. I bought the Rubicon Express pitman arm. RE2500. Got it from Amazon. Lots of pitman arms aren't made of good enough material and then you torque the nut down, over time the splined hole stretches and moves upward on the steering gear box shaft. Then you end up with a loose nut which is very unsafe. Omix Ada and Crown Pitman arms are very big offenders of this issue. This is why i chose the more expensive RE option.

Order it from Amazon and try it out. Worst case, for some reason it doesn't work and interferes with the steering and you can ship it back. Best case, it makes your steering about as good as it can be on a small lifted Jeep. Post up the results whatever you do.