Folks, run your freakin' engine from time to time

machoheadgames

Certified YJ Researcher
Supporting Member
Joined
May 19, 2020
Messages
1,978
Location
Dallas, TX
As some of the people who read my build thread know, my Jeep has not had the engine ran in probably 10 or so months. Probably even closer to a year by now, as I fully parked it in August last year beginning with my rear bumper swap, which turned into a whole fuel system swap, clutch, timing cover/chain, rear main seal, oil pan project.

I finally cranked the engine up for the first time about a week ago. Immediately, it did not sound good. I heard a ticking noise (worse than the usual 4.0 tick that everyone has). I figured it was just working up some oil, no big deal, noise would go away quickly. Shut it down and went into the house to give it some time before I'd crank it again. An hour or so later, I went back out there and cranked it up again. Noise was still there. I peek around at the gauges and !!! - no oil pressure. 0. Not low, just none at all. I know my sender is accurate too so not a sender/gauge issue.

I shut it off and start fretting about the possible damage I did, and then transfer over to the problem solving mindset, trying to think of all the possible causes and what my next steps would be. Oil was definitely in it, so it's not a no-oil situation. I pulled the oil filter, which I had recently changed. Bone dry (I usually install dry or pre-fill with a small amount, enough that the filter absorbs it all). Filter was completely dry, so I put it back on. The filter is the first spot the oil goes after being sucked out of the pan, so obviously oil is not leaving the pan at all if it's not getting to the filter.

My buddy brought up the idea that maybe my oil system needed priming since it had sat so long. I was doubtful, mainly because I thought the engine would have immediately pulled up oil after being cranked up. Wanting to rule out this possibliity, I pulled the ASD relay, the fuel pump relay, unplugged the ignition coil, and removed all the spark plugs (for easier cranking). I cranked the engine a bunch of times, which spun real easily with everything removed. Still no pressure, nothing at all. Figuring priming wasn't the issue, I left the ignition stuff taken apart and started looking towards the pan/pump/pickup tube, etc.

I drained the oil and went and grabbed dinner while I waited. Next I zipped all 20 something bolts off and dropped the pan. My existing pickup tube was a little bit dented, but that is from a past life. Young 17 year old me didn't know what he was doing when he changed motor mounts in 2013. Young me used a jack directly on the oil pan and it dented the old pan enough to actually press into the oil pump pickup tube shield and bent it a bit. Never caused oil problems though so I ran it.

When I started examining the pickup tube, it looked like the screen was somehow sucking up against the top part of the pickup. Wondering if that was blocking suction, I ordered a new pickup tube and compared. Nope, they were basically the same looking. Returned the pickup tube and continued on in my search.

I stuck a bucket of oil under the pickup and submersed it down in there. Cranked the engine again, no suction. I wanted to rule out the pickup tube vacuuming itself up to the aftermarket oil pan and causing a loss of oil suction. Nope, no dice.

Next I pulled the oil pump to test it by itself. I dipped it in a bucket of oil and spun the drive with a drill. Nothing. Checked the drive and the distributor tip which drives the pump. Both were in great shape, no broken parts. I disassembled the pump and everything looked perfect. It's hard for a gear oil pump to die, they basically just spin forever and ever. I put the pump back together.

IMG_5263.JPEG


Okay, so what the hell? What could it possibly be? I kept playing with the pump in oil and I noticed hole in the top that didn't correspond to anything in the engine block. Since that hole would be plugged theoretically by the gasket, I plugged it with my finger to simulate installation. I spun it with the drill again, boom, after 5 second oil started coming out of the top. So obviously the old pump worked.

When I did my rear main seal, I wanted to change the dented pickup tube. The pickup tube has a bracket on it that overlaps one of the pump's mounting bolt holes. To try and change the pickup, I removed that bolt. I started yanking on the pickup tube to try and remove it and decided to abort the mission, as I didn't know how hard it would be for me to press in a new pickup tube after the fact. I put the bolt back and forgot about that idea. Fast forward to now, after discovering the hole in the pump that has to be plugged, I wondered if maybe me removing the oil pump bolt in the past ruined that gasket and now the hole wasn't plugging properly, hence no suction?? You can see the bulge where the empty hole pressed against the gasket, so I was wondering if me removing that right side bolt for the pickup tube and then reinstalling possibly screwed up the gasket sealing with that hole, hence losing suction.

RenderedImage.JPEG
IMG_5264.JPEG


So, I ordered a new pump, pickup tube, and gasket. With all of this I figured new parts are best. I tested the old pump in some nasty oil too, so getting a nice new clean part to work with seemed like a good idea. Today I got all the parts:

Melling M81A Oil Pump
Melling 242S pickup tube
Melling MCAT-62 install tool (highly recommended!!!!!)
Fel Pro Oil Pan Gasket
6 more quarts of stupid oil after I just wasted the last 6 quarts

Nice new pump and pickup tube pressed together...

IMG_5320.JPEG


I pressed in the pickup tube and went to install. Everything went right on. I went to crank the engine with the starter again, with the pickup tube dipped in oil. Lo and behold.......still no freakin' oil pressure. After nearly yanking all my hair and setting the Jeep on fire, I decided to sit and think. The only thing I hadn't done yet was truly prime the engine with a drill, flat blade screwdriver, and do it through the distributor hole. I didn't want to but I decided to pull the distributor and go to harbor freight for some screwdrivers that I could chop up and stick in my drill. I got this bad boy stuck in the drill and did some pumping.

IMG_5345.JPEG


After something like THREE minutes, I FINALLY got oil pressure. I was monitoring the oil through the filter spot. I removed the filter. The oil gets pumped to the filter first, so as soon as oil came out of the filter hole I knew. Then I put the filter back on, put the oil pan, starter, etc on. I filled the oil pan up with 6 quarts of oil and did a crank with the starter. Finally, some damn oil pressure when cranking! I could have sped this process up by packing the oil pump with vaseline, but I didn't want to open up the brand new pump because it has a gasket in it that I didn't want to mess up and then introduce more questionable areas of possible failure.

Pic of the oil pump that you "spin" with the drill from above. You stick the flathead screwdriver into here and run the drill clockwise, simulating the job the distributor usually does.

IMG_5325.JPEG


I buttoned back up all the ignition stuff, ASD relay, fuel relay, etc. I gave it a quick prayer and started it up. 50 PSI oil pressure!! It sounded great and was idling smooth as a YJ engine can.

So the moral of the story here is that it wasn't any of the millions of things I checked. It was seriously that the system was empty and needed priming, and all the starter usage was too fast to actually begin sucking up oil. What I should have done from the beginning was pull the distributor, spin the pump with my drill and screwdriver, and I would have built up pressure and never had to change the pump, dropped the pan, etc. Oh well, you live and you learn.

Really, there are two morals. The first moral is to run your engine more often so this never happens. The second moral is to check and try truly priming the oil pump in case the system ran dry. Had I done all that to begin with, life would have been a lot easier. The better plan though is to run the engine often enough so the system doesn't go dry.

I finally got my new Mopar spark plug wires too so I went ahead and installed them today after the engine was running properly again. What a damn mess. At least I know I have a good oil pump and pickup tube now!

Thanks @SirDoopYJ and @jeepjoe43 for letting me vent a small bit while I worked through the process trying to figure it all out lol.

IMG_5346.JPEG
 
Last edited:
Pretty much! I was never much of a forum-goer in the past but it is nice to have a place to compile info, share experiences, and get that moral support when you're close to pulling out your hair due to frustrating problems.
 
Lol it is a balance process. I have a week of venting and then you have your week of venting.

This is a good learning process and it is great you shared all the info with us so we don't do the same. I never knew something like this could happen.

I now need to go inspect my Gramps truck for it has been sitting under a tree for more than a few months.
 
I gotta tell you I had a similar thing happen a couple years back when i was helping out a guy with a Cherokee he wanted to sell. He had several that sat around for an unknown time. Threw a battery in it, some good gas,checked the oil and it fired right up. The typical lifter clatter did not go away after a few 15 second runs scratching our heads so we shut it down. I pulled the filter and he fired it up, no oil flow. Coming to the conclusion it must have lost prime,the oil on the screen solidified and things were not going to cooperate he threw in the towel and gave up. Not sure if he ever did anything with it in the end. probably just shut the hood and hauled it off or parted it out.
Ive read the new ford rangers were, or still are having engine damages after draining the oil for a basic oil change. Pump losses prime, engine craters upon restart. Oil must be drained and replaced pronto or this apparently happens. Also Chevy LS 4.8 thru 5.3 engines. $1.50 O ring on the oil pick up tube goes south with time. If its a 4x4 the front diff must be dropped, the cross member and pen then out and O ring replaced. Fun,fun. This happened to my 2000. A real PITA. Ive heard numerous horror stories from owners where dealers tell them the engine is shot and $5000+ for a engine is the cure.
 
  • Like
Reactions: machoheadgames
The worst part is the amount of time (a week) and money ($400) I lost just to go full circle on this issue. I started out immediately with the right problem in mind, but the solution I used (cranking engine with starter) didn’t work so I thought priming wasn’t the issue in general anymore. Just sucks because none of the dropping the pan, or all the new parts purchased were needed at all. Live and learn - at least it’s done
 
Oh - here is the oil pump pickup tube tool if anyone is curious. Just clamps over the tube with a backer piece and two Allen bolts. Then line the pickup up to the pump and hammer away. Got it done in like 30 seconds. Works on any engine with a 5/8” pickup tube, which I’m learning is almost all engines around our size.

2C123C9A-336F-4731-98DF-840434FCE58A.jpeg
 
  • Like
Reactions: jeepjoe43
Man, that IS the Jeep world defined!
And it only gets worse when you actually use them. LOL
Lol indeed, I have been “gotcha’d” by my YJ I don’t know how many times. And it’s almost always caused by me. I do something, the thing doesn’t turn out as expected, and then I have to come up with some sort of troubleshooting or alternate solution. And then 3 years later I don’t like whatever it was I did so I scrap it and spend more money to switch to something else :ROFLMAO:
 
As some of the people who read my build thread know, my Jeep has not had the engine ran in probably 10 or so months. Probably even closer to a year by now, as I fully parked it in August last year beginning with my rear bumper swap, which turned into a whole fuel system swap, clutch, timing cover/chain, rear main seal, oil pan project.

I finally cranked the engine up for the first time about a week ago. Immediately, it did not sound good. I heard a ticking noise (worse than the usual 4.0 tick that everyone has). I figured it was just working up some oil, no big deal, noise would go away quickly. Shut it down and went into the house to give it some time before I'd crank it again. An hour or so later, I went back out there and cranked it up again. Noise was still there. I peek around at the gauges and !!! - no oil pressure. 0. Not low, just none at all. I know my sender is accurate too so not a sender/gauge issue.

I shut it off and start fretting about the possible damage I did, and then transfer over to the problem solving mindset, trying to think of all the possible causes and what my next steps would be. Oil was definitely in it, so it's not a no-oil situation. I pulled the oil filter, which I had recently changed. Bone dry (I usually install dry or pre-fill with a small amount, enough that the filter absorbs it all). Filter was completely dry, so I put it back on. The filter is the first spot the oil goes after being sucked out of the pan, so obviously oil is not leaving the pan at all if it's not getting to the filter.

My buddy brought up the idea that maybe my oil system needed priming since it had sat so long. I was doubtful, mainly because I thought the engine would have immediately pulled up oil after being cranked up. Wanting to rule out this possibliity, I pulled the ASD relay, the fuel pump relay, unplugged the ignition coil, and removed all the spark plugs (for easier cranking). I cranked the engine a bunch of times, which spun real easily with everything removed. Still no pressure, nothing at all. Figuring priming wasn't the issue, I left the ignition stuff taken apart and started looking towards the pan/pump/pickup tube, etc.

I drained the oil and went and grabbed dinner while I waited. Next I zipped all 20 something bolts off and dropped the pan. My existing pickup tube was a little bit dented, but that is from a past life. Young 17 year old me didn't know what he was doing when he changed motor mounts in 2013. Young me used a jack directly on the oil pan and it dented the old pan enough to actually press into the oil pump pickup tube shield and bent it a bit. Never caused oil problems though so I ran it.

When I started examining the pickup tube, it looked like the screen was somehow sucking up against the top part of the pickup. Wondering if that was blocking suction, I ordered a new pickup tube and compared. Nope, they were basically the same looking. Returned the pickup tube and continued on in my search.

I stuck a bucket of oil under the pickup and submersed it down in there. Cranked the engine again, no suction. I wanted to rule out the pickup tube vacuuming itself up to the aftermarket oil pan and causing a loss of oil suction. Nope, no dice.

Next I pulled the oil pump to test it by itself. I dipped it in a bucket of oil and spun the drive with a drill. Nothing. Checked the drive and the distributor tip which drives the pump. Both were in great shape, no broken parts. I disassembled the pump and everything looked perfect. It's hard for a gear oil pump to die, they basically just spin forever and ever. I put the pump back together.

View attachment 117950

Okay, so what the hell? What could it possibly be? I kept playing with the pump in oil and I noticed hole in the top that didn't correspond to anything in the engine block. Since that hole would be plugged theoretically by the gasket, I plugged it with my finger to simulate installation. I spun it with the drill again, boom, after 5 second oil started coming out of the top. So obviously the old pump worked.

When I did my rear main seal, I wanted to change the dented pickup tube. The pickup tube has a bracket on it that overlaps one of the pump's mounting bolt holes. To try and change the pickup, I removed that bolt. I started yanking on the pickup tube to try and remove it and decided to abort the mission, as I didn't know how hard it would be for me to press in a new pickup tube after the fact. I put the bolt back and forgot about that idea. Fast forward to now, after discovering the hole in the pump that has to be plugged, I wondered if maybe me removing the oil pump bolt in the past ruined that gasket and now the hole wasn't plugging properly, hence no suction?? You can see the bulge where the empty hole pressed against the gasket, so I was wondering if me removing that right side bolt for the pickup tube and then reinstalling possibly screwed up the gasket sealing with that hole, hence losing suction.

View attachment 117956View attachment 117951

So, I ordered a new pump, pickup tube, and gasket. With all of this I figured new parts are best. I tested the old pump in some nasty oil too, so getting a nice new clean part to work with seemed like a good idea. Today I got all the parts:

Melling M81A Oil Pump
Melling 242S pickup tube
Melling MCAT-62 install tool (highly recommended!!!!!)
Fel Pro Oil Pan Gasket
6 more quarts of stupid oil after I just wasted the last 6 quarts

Nice new pump and pickup tube pressed together...

View attachment 117952

I pressed in the pickup tube and went to install. Everything went right on. I went to crank the engine with the starter again, with the pickup tube dipped in oil. Lo and behold.......still no freakin' oil pressure. After nearly yanking all my hair and setting the Jeep on fire, I decided to sit and think. The only thing I hadn't done yet was truly prime the engine with a drill, flat blade screwdriver, and do it through the distributor hole. I didn't want to but I decided to pull the distributor and go to harbor freight for some screwdrivers that I could chop up and stick in my drill. I got this bad boy stuck in the drill and did some pumping.

View attachment 117954

After something like THREE minutes, I FINALLY got oil pressure. I was monitoring the oil through the filter spot. I removed the filter. The oil gets pumped to the filter first, so as soon as oil came out of the filter hole I knew. Then I put the filter back on, put the oil pan, starter, etc on. I filled the oil pan up with 6 quarts of oil and did a crank with the starter. Finally, some damn oil pressure when cranking! I could have sped this process up by packing the oil pump with vaseline, but I didn't want to open up the brand new pump because it has a gasket in it that I didn't want to mess up and then introduce more questionable areas of possible failure.

Pic of the oil pump that you "spin" with the drill from above. You stick the flathead screwdriver into here and run the drill clockwise, simulating the job the distributor usually does.

View attachment 117953

I buttoned back up all the ignition stuff, ASD relay, fuel relay, etc. I gave it a quick prayer and started it up. 50 PSI oil pressure!! It sounded great and was idling smooth as a YJ engine can.

So the moral of the story here is that it wasn't any of the millions of things I checked. It was seriously that the system was empty and needed priming, and all the starter usage was too fast to actually begin sucking up oil. What I should have done from the beginning was pull the distributor, spin the pump with my drill and screwdriver, and I would have built up pressure and never had to change the pump, dropped the pan, etc. Oh well, you live and you learn.

Really, there are two morals. The first moral is to run your engine more often so this never happens. The second moral is to check and try truly priming the oil pump in case the system ran dry. Had I done all that to begin with, life would have been a lot easier. The better plan though is to run the engine often enough so the system doesn't go dry.

I finally got my new Mopar spark plug wires too so I went ahead and installed them today after the engine was running properly again. What a damn mess. At least I know I have a good oil pump and pickup tube now!

Thanks @SirDoopYJ and @jeepjoe43 for letting me vent a small bit while I worked through the process trying to figure it all out lol.

View attachment 117955
Thanks for sharing and the pics. Great write up too.
 
I read this and thought I might as well check mine since it's been parked for about four weeks and a strange thing happened.

I turned the key to run (Engine off) and the oil pressure needle went from 0 to 80+ PSI and sat there. Strange, I turned the key off and back on and the needle dropped to 0 then back up pegged at 80+ PSI. So I then started the engine and the pressure dropped down to the normal 60 PSI for a cold engine.

After running it for a minute I shut it off and turned the key on and off a few times and the needle stay at 0.
 
Random note:

A few years back ...I guess it was quite a few years now (funny how that happens)

Melling shipped a batch of oil pumps that had metal shavings inside them.
Apparently they didn't get cleaned out properly from the factory.
SOURCE: My friend Dennis, the engine builder.

Because of this, I always disassemble and inspect new oil pumps, then pack them with assembly lube before installing them. Also, prime the oil system on a new build.

PPS
ALWAYS WELD IN THE PICKUP TUBE
The only engine build I ever had go wrong was due to a pickup tube falling out, on a customer's boat. That sucked. I fixed it
$$$(built him a new motor)$$$
 
  • Like
Reactions: Flyer58