Starter Issues

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ThunderLocke

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Hey everyone, I have a 95 with the 4 cyl in it. Bought it about 4 months ago and It's been running fine. Then the starter went out. No big deal, I went and got a remanned one at O'reillys and it worked great for 3 days. Started doing the single click again so I pulled out the multimeter and it was giving 9 amps from solenoid to motor while cranking. Went and got another starter, also a remanned because they didnt have any new ones. Same exact issue. Have them both sitting out and hooked them straight up to a battery and jumped across with a screw driver and they both work flawlessly. So is this a wiring issue that I need to be looking at? Do I need to find a way to shim the starter? Neither one fits quite the same as the original did. I read on another post that shimming might be a thing that needs to happen, but no shims came with the new starters so I'm not sure what I should be looking at next

Thanks in advance everyone
 
It did come with that, and it says that after 5/94, then it shouldn't require a shim because it's the newer mitsubishi starters, not the older bosch starters, so your '92 would require it, by my '95 shouldnt. The diag sounds are dependent on it starting, which all I'm getting is the single click which usually means a dead starter, but pulling the starter off and bench testing it shows it working fine, which is where I'm getting stuck at. I can't see the teeth after I've gotten the starter slid into place so I can't tell if I'm lined up properly or not and I'm not sure what could be causing the 3v drop between solenoid and starter motor
 
so did not jump start it first? the battery is bad.? is first.
you said straight to the battery but did not say the cars battery or some other.
it is shimmed. service manual free covers that.(<<<<<click me get free manual 95) and has full schematics too, amazing.

you are correct the wiring can be bad, the starter relay bad or the key switch.
here is this list, not using volts first was wrong,1st act, across the battery and someone else cranks it. see 11vdc min. 12.6v to resting and as you crank it goes to 11v min. at 8v the solenoid it chatters.
  1. battery voltage good, test#1, if not jumper cable jump start the car. battery.
  2. bad starter RELAY in under hood box. PDC. or key switch. (it swaps easy as pie) see photo 1.
  3. 12vdc does not make it to the starter solenoid tiny pin cranked. (see #2 or wires or key switch)
  4. engine turns ok by hand, if not it is seized. or ring gear bad.
  5. wiring, bad. end to end lots and the service manual on starter pages, shows all that. (and is not complex)
  6. flywheel ring gear is wrecked. (jams) (look with flash light. see)
  7. starting amps is 100 amps par, sure 9amps on the tiny wire to starter, I'm talking big cable. Plus.

slow crank, weak, or clicks or chatters, battery is first. hood up easy tests, no need to crawl under car yet, or call AAA auto tow say jump me..

1 click is bad battery, first. why go to all the work of pulling a starter and installing it and losing shims., when jumper cables answers this so easy.

wire/cables all 4 ends of battery cable lugs not a wreck , nine were all bad. day1. (and expected)

the relay, can be swapped easy with others, see them there all same part number, the horn relay swap trick.


here is my day1 nasty PCD, it clean now. see those black relays , they are all the same.

shim.JPG


day2-pdc.jpg
 
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see my green wire in PDC if loose all power is lost. it must be tight both ends. (mine was a wreck, now cured)
inspect the car for old alarm systems hacked in and makes the starter dead. 30 year old cars are like this. It is expected.
same goes with that hack #2 called, remote start kits, failing. or other hacks to starter.

when the battery fails and voltage falls to 10 v then to 7vdc, all you get is the solenoid click and is dead.
voltage matters huge and first. then current 2nd.
electrics 101.
old cars it is common to see hacks and abuse. super super common, OKAY?
 
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Bad cables can be deceiving as well. They may look fine but internally they are corroded and can cause your problem. Unloaded both starters seem fine, turning over the engine, not the case. Make sure your grounds are good to the block, body and frame. Im not clear on your "9 amps" . A starter will typically pull in the 250amps+ range. Did your battery voltage drop to 9V and was that off the battery posts, not the cables somewhere?
 
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Gilaguy23 said:
Bad cables can be deceiving as well. They may look fine but internally they are corroded and can cause your problem. Unloaded both starters seem fine, turning over the engine, not the case. Make sure your grounds are good to the block, body and frame. Im not clear on your "9 amps" . A starter will typically pull in the 250amps+ range. Did your battery voltage drop to 9V and was that off the battery posts, not the cables somewhere?
Click to expand...
Sorry that was my bad, yeah it was dropping to 9v, I had the multimeter positive hooked to the small post on the starter and the ground e-torx bolt that bolts the starter on the engine. Reads 0v when key is in the on position and 9v in the start position. But hooking postive on to the large post that's connected to the battery reads 12.6v
 
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Dorf said:
so did not jump start it first? the battery is bad.? is first.
you said straight to the battery but did not say the cars battery or some other.
it is shimmed. service manual free covers that.(<<<<<click me get free manual 95) and has full schematics too, amazing.

you are correct the wiring can be bad, the starter relay bad or the key switch.
here is this list, not using volts first was wrong,1st act, across the battery and someone else cranks it. see 11vdc min. 12.6v to resting and as you crank it goes to 11v min. at 8v the solenoid it chatters.
  1. battery voltage good, test#1, if not jumper cable jump start the car. battery.
  2. bad starter RELAY in under hood box. PDC. or key switch. (it swaps easy as pie) see photo 1.
  3. 12vdc does not make it to the starter solenoid tiny pin cranked. (see #2 or wires or key switch)
  4. engine turns ok by hand, if not it is seized. or ring gear bad.
  5. wiring, bad. end to end lots and the service manual on starter pages, shows all that. (and is not complex)
  6. flywheel ring gear is wrecked. (jams) (look with flash light. see)
  7. starting amps is 100 amps par, sure 9amps on the tiny wire to starter, I'm talking big cable. Plus.

slow crank, weak, or clicks or chatters, battery is first. hood up easy tests, no need to crawl under car yet, or call AAA auto tow say jump me..

1 click is bad battery, first. why go to all the work of pulling a starter and installing it and losing shims., when jumper cables answers this so easy.

wire/cables all 4 ends of battery cable lugs not a wreck , nine were all bad. day1. (and expected)

the relay, can be swapped easy with others, see them there all same part number, the horn relay swap trick.


here is my day1 nasty PCD, it clean now. see those black relays , they are all the same.

View attachment 122172

View attachment 122174
Click to expand...
My bad, should've mentioned that I checked the battery first. Tried jumping it with my booster box first, then pulled my pickup up to it, neither worked. I pulled the battery and took it to the mechanic a few blocks down and they tested it saying it was good. Texted the guy I bought the jeep from and the battery was bought last August, so slightly over a year old. Battery is reading 12.6v so it's in good condition. When I bench tested them it was on my car battery.

Thanks for the service manuals. Mine didn't come with them. I'll check the starter relay when I get home from work.

I have a new set of cables coming from jeepcables.com(support small business and all that jazz) so I'll throw those on when they get here. For the most part the current ones look fine, I mostly got the new ones as an upgrade because I plan on putting more lights and a winch on so I got thicker gauge cables
 
Battery and ground cables can look fine externally but be a tube of corrosion inside the insulation. The exposed wires wick water/moisture/crud into the insulation and overtime it just becomes a tube of powder. With enough conductivity to run most of the Jeep but when tasked with carrying the hundreds of amps of starter load simply have too much resistance. This would explain why you're seeing 9v at the starter when you try to crank. And why trying to jump it did no good. I'm willing to bet that cleaning the ground points and new cables will fix you up.

I took my cables down to Orileys and myself and one of the younger counter guys built a new set of cables right on the table at the store with a lug crimper they had and terminals off the shelf. I think total cost was 60 dollars all said and done.

Ive got the Jeepcables on the XJ and it really is a top notch kit.
 
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Dorf said:
"...inspect the car for old alarm systems hacked in and makes the starter dead..." 30 year old cars are like this. It is expected. "...remote start kits, failing. or other hacks..." "...old cars it is common to see hacks and abuse. super super common, OKAY?"
Click to expand...
Word
 
we answer in the blind! we can not see the car or inspect it and go gee that is wrong/.missing okay?
so answers can be wrong. (maybe even 1/2 are) hummmmm
we test using a meter first. for excessive voltage drop cranking, 11vdc is lowest allowed.
Funny thing ,just yesterday I remove the last PO hacks on my jeep . Wiring. hack jobs.
In electronics we learned, that job 1 is make sure power is good first. (or go broke fast or waste endless time and labor)
ECU and all need good and clean power. to function correctly.
 
Starter dead (or too slow) list, in order of easy to hard, (lacking tools is whole other longer list of tests)
  • lugs loose or rusty battery 4 ends, all 4 ends on tight, and the ground cable not to the wrong place, ever..
  • Battery cables this old love to be bad, mine were a wreck day one and fully replaced all the bad wires. there. (and PDC main (green mine is now)
  • battery load tested good ( it did) we find later.
  • battery voltage drop not too low, 11vdc is min cranking. I can not hear it crank so can be more savvy.
  • (our only clue is the word single click) told later. so swap relays. (the starter relay clicks too as does the solenoid) one drowns out the other sure.
  • the starter can be hot wired In situ. in place, parked , chocked tires, tranny in N or P, 4wd in N if wiser, 1 man test. under car jumper big lug to tiny lung on starter, and the starter spins fast or is dead. engine cranks fast or not. (this test is KEYS IN POCKET ONLY !)
  • if starter works well leave it alone, if not proceed to next steps. ( just saved you 3 hours labor and $150 just this one test)
  • hand turn the engine, if seized find out why, if bad starter /ring gear jam is suspected remove the starter and hand turn the engine now, ok now?
  • If seized starter off, well , chain cam failures? if not not seized starter on or off. then next. up? in fact now , jumped starter works ,jumped in situ.
  • if all the above tests pass. then use a voltmeter to the key switch make sure it does 12vdc cranked or test this pin at the starter relay for easy access.
  • the starter relay output must be 12vdc cranked or 11v if it does crank. 0v is bad relay bad ignition switch.
  • the starter relay can be hot wire, relay remove and horn relay is the spare. the pins to jump are below. This test can be the most easy standing up.
  • did i get them all, and as you see a dead starter is not always a bad starter.
hand turning and engine means at the huge damper pulley nut. Turned CW. only.
using deep socket 1/2" breaker bar.
own and use a $15 DMM meter, use volts mode. the meter can find all BAD spec. voltage drops on a cars wiring ,(0.50vd is max on wires (generic)
The battery drops from12.6v to 11v cranking. at the battery and at the starter too.
do no connect the battery neg lug end (far) to the body for frame ever,(yes seen this endless) but must be to the engine block or to one of the starter bolts as seen on other cars mostly. or show where yours are, with photos.
both hot wires and ground wires can fail, and are equal in bad effects.
the cables drops must not show over 1/2 a volt.
with tests we find the truth save driving all over town for parts that do not fit this jeep.
Most failures on old cars. electric are simply bad voltage drops on bad wiring and bad rusty connections., and easy to fix. with tools.
Even walmart sells a battery cable kit.
seen battery cables where the acid there is sucked up the cable deep and skinned back the copper is a huge mess of green copper oxide.
these are useless. and invisible until skinned.<<< new cars the batteries don't leak acid ,so is less common, the Battery makers cured this. with lead case seals unlike any battery made for 100 years. (love em I do) The old cables, well, replace them if green is seen.

bellow is the 2 hot wire tests. that save most folks from going broke guessing, sorry if yes.
the MT car is the most simple, is it?
just 2 tests and the results told here, gets you 1 more test or 2, to end the saga.
the key switch can be tested at relay lug 26. relay.
Pin 27 dead, F4 is blown. just 50cent fuse fixes it. (if starter solenoid not shorted that is wires to same)
starter jumps.JPG
 
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9amps is not told where. or was 9 amps really volts and if yes is bad. and a huge clue to the cause. tell how tests are done get 10x better answers.
I own a DC amp clamp meter. to measure amps and not break the circuit.
my solenoid WIRE used 8amps for current cranking and is 11vdc doing so not 9v ever.
most solenoids chatter like woodpecker,at 8vdc. rattaatata tat.
the starter pulls 100amps (sure more if temps hit 32f or lower, use 5w-30 oil up North. 6cyl. version more, 150amps. off RED main battery cable. clamped.
best tests are on car tests.
that is for sure.
ask how. it is not hard. at all, just simple tests at first. lugs rusty is 99% of cause. ask a tow truck man. (AAA tow)
 
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