Mirror Question. of YJ 93


Brian

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Joined
Nov 6, 2021
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19
Location
Hernando FL
I purchased mirrors for my YJ thinking I did not want them on the doors incase i used it without doors.
Drivers side is fine mounted on windshield frame, but the passenger side makes no sense to me. If i turn the arm inward so I am looking thru the windshield it doesn't give much of a view. If I turn the arm outward the mounting hole is parallel to the door glass. Meaning I could use it to shave with. What do you guys use for mirrors that don't mount to the doors?
 

machoheadgames

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May 19, 2020
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Dallas, TX
I purchased mirrors for my YJ thinking I did not want them on the doors incase i used it without doors.
Drivers side is fine mounted on windshield frame, but the passenger side makes no sense to me. If i turn the arm inward so I am looking thru the windshield it doesn't give much of a view. If I turn the arm outward the mounting hole is parallel to the door glass. Meaning I could use it to shave with. What do you guys use for mirrors that don't mount to the doors?
There aren't a lot of good options for that. You can try the CJ style mirrors which are meant to be looked at through the glass. Otherwise the way our doors are designed, they don't really work that well when mirrors are mounted anywhere else besides the doors. Personally I just go without mirrors, but that's legal here. I know it isn't everywhere. If it is legal, that's what I'd do. I don't feel unsafe, I just look before I maneuver.
 
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Brian

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Nov 6, 2021
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Hernando FL
There aren't a lot of good options for that. You can try the CJ style mirrors which are meant to be looked at through the glass. Otherwise the way our doors are designed, they don't really work that well when mirrors are mounted anywhere else besides the doors. Personally I just go without mirrors, but that's legal here. I know it isn't everywhere. If it is legal, that's what I'd do. I don't feel unsafe, I just look before I maneuver.
I have noticed a lot of jeeps with just the drivers side mirror. I think that is what I will do. Since you usually respond. Here are a couple more questions if you don't mind.
1. 5mpg fuel economy. black exhaust pipe. It has a new oxy sensor (trying to correct the ck engine light). Got new tune stuff already done. Ideas?
2. Is there anything more than toe in for alighnment?
3. I know I have a bad 3rd gear sycn. Any additives or heavier fluid help?
4. I have to pay close attention when driving because it seems to jump around alot. Front end joints are all ok. I hear that it is normal in jeeps.
That is enough questions for now, don't want to jamb up your brain.
 

machoheadgames

Certified YJ Researcher
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Joined
May 19, 2020
Messages
950
Location
Dallas, TX
I have noticed a lot of jeeps with just the drivers side mirror. I think that is what I will do. Since you usually respond. Here are a couple more questions if you don't mind.
1. 5mpg fuel economy. black exhaust pipe. It has a new oxy sensor (trying to correct the ck engine light). Got new tune stuff already done. Ideas?
2. Is there anything more than toe in for alighnment?
3. I know I have a bad 3rd gear sycn. Any additives or heavier fluid help?
4. I have to pay close attention when driving because it seems to jump around alot. Front end joints are all ok. I hear that it is normal in jeeps.
That is enough questions for now, don't want to jamb up your brain.
Sorry was traveling yesterday for the holiday.

1) Hmm not sure why it would be so bad. Coolant temp sensor in good shape? Don’t base that answer off the gauge, the gauge is driven by a separate sending unit. The two wire on the thermostat housing is specifically for telling the computer when engine is warm enough so computer will run it in closed loop which saves considerable amounts of fuel. MAP sensor in good shape? Did the new O2 change anything or exact same conditions? Do the key trick (YouTube it) to check your codes - what codes do you get? If light is on then it definitely has a code or two stored and you can read them from the key. If you can’t figure out counting them post a vid and I or others will help.

2) not really. There is toe in and setting the steering wheel straight relative to the wheels. From. The factory caster is set by the welded spring perches and doesn’t change until you add longer front shackles. The longer shackles inherently rotate the axle forward which decreases the caster and makes handling suck. So stock, or not much longer than stock shackles are preferred. Caster is set by the knuckle and unit bearing which is naturally straight up and down. That doesn’t change unless you bend the axle housing. You can adjust camber and caster a bit by buying offset ball joints but I really don’t consider that to be worth it. You should not need those items.

3) redline MT90 made the most positive difference on my old transmission. It was still notchy in 3rd sometimes and 2nd when cold but it improved a lot. Not so much an additive but a full fluid replacement. Who knows what’s in yours and if it’s GL5 gear oil, it’s wrong. The manual incorrectly recommended that.

4) I’m not going to say anything like that is “normal” with Jeeps because in stock form they relatively drive like cars or at least like cars of the 90s. However issues like you say are common and they depend on quite a few variables: lift, how much lift, was a drop pitman arm used, are track bars still there, etc). The YJ has a crappy steering design which is ok in stock form but once you lift it you start seeing the flaws. Lifting it puts the drag link at angle which means when you hit bumps, the suspension compression pushes or pulls on the drag link which will rotate your steering wheel even though you’re going straight. Better steering designs would negate that but not many really exist. If you have a lift I definitely suggest a drop pitman arm if you don’t have one already. YJs came stock with a front and rear track bar or panhard bar which are supposed to locate the axles laterally. The leaf springs do a decent job of centering the axle already so many people throw out the track bars entirely. The rear track bar can be tossed out no questions. The front can too but I don’t like it that way. I have since added a track bar back to mine using a relocation bracket for my lift which also makes the track bar stay parallel with my drag link since my drag link is using a dropped pitman arm. I haven’t driven it yet but I think it’ll be pretty good when I do.

What you don’t want are the stock track bars with lifted suspension and no extension brackets. In that case you have to pull the axle over and bind the suspension to get the track bar in which is not ideal at all. It will wear out your spring bushings, provide awful ride quality, etc.

My brain doesn’t mind exercise. If you have more questions, post them. I or someone else will get to them.
 
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Brian

New Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2021
Messages
19
Location
Hernando FL
Sorry was traveling yesterday for the holiday.

1) Hmm not sure why it would be so bad. Coolant temp sensor in good shape? Don’t base that answer off the gauge, the gauge is driven by a separate sending unit. The two wire on the thermostat housing is specifically for telling the computer when engine is warm enough so computer will run it in closed loop which saves considerable amounts of fuel. MAP sensor in good shape? Did the new O2 change anything or exact same conditions? Do the key trick (YouTube it) to check your codes - what codes do you get? If light is on then it definitely has a code or two stored and you can read them from the key. If you can’t figure out counting them post a vid and I or others will help.

2) not really. There is toe in and setting the steering wheel straight relative to the wheels. From. The factory caster is set by the welded spring perches and doesn’t change until you add longer front shackles. The longer shackles inherently rotate the axle forward which decreases the caster and makes handling suck. So stock, or not much longer than stock shackles are preferred. Caster is set by the knuckle and unit bearing which is naturally straight up and down. That doesn’t change unless you bend the axle housing. You can adjust camber and caster a bit by buying offset ball joints but I really don’t consider that to be worth it. You should not need those items.

3) redline MT90 made the most positive difference on my old transmission. It was still notchy in 3rd sometimes and 2nd when cold but it improved a lot. Not so much an additive but a full fluid replacement. Who knows what’s in yours and if it’s GL5 gear oil, it’s wrong. The manual incorrectly recommended that.

4) I’m not going to say anything like that is “normal” with Jeeps because in stock form they relatively drive like cars or at least like cars of the 90s. However issues like you say are common and they depend on quite a few variables: lift, how much lift, was a drop pitman arm used, are track bars still there, etc). The YJ has a crappy steering design which is ok in stock form but once you lift it you start seeing the flaws. Lifting it puts the drag link at angle which means when you hit bumps, the suspension compression pushes or pulls on the drag link which will rotate your steering wheel even though you’re going straight. Better steering designs would negate that but not many really exist. If you have a lift I definitely suggest a drop pitman arm if you don’t have one already. YJs came stock with a front and rear track bar or panhard bar which are supposed to locate the axles laterally. The leaf springs do a decent job of centering the axle already so many people throw out the track bars entirely. The rear track bar can be tossed out no questions. The front can too but I don’t like it that way. I have since added a track bar back to mine using a relocation bracket for my lift which also makes the track bar stay parallel with my drag link since my drag link is using a dropped pitman arm. I haven’t driven it yet but I think it’ll be pretty good when I do.

What you don’t want are the stock track bars with lifted suspension and no extension brackets. In that case you have to pull the axle over and bind the suspension to get the track bar in which is not ideal at all. It will wear out your spring bushings, provide awful ride quality, etc.

My brain doesn’t mind exercise. If you have more questions, post them. I or someone else will get to them.
I am going to pick on you for my questions, like the way you answer. Honestly I think it had better mileage before I changed the oxy sensor. My old one tested ok on the bench but I had already changed, so i left it in.
Could not see spending $80 for an alignment when it was just toe in. I set my using the level trick. Close enough.
Just saw a video about removing track bars and why. My jeep has been lifted before I got it via leaf springs, so I might pull them out and look into the drag link and pitman arm.
No idea what is in trans, but I will change it
Thx so much
 

machoheadgames

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Joined
May 19, 2020
Messages
950
Location
Dallas, TX
Lookup the key trick to figure out what code is triggering the check engine light. That will probably narrow it down to what you actually need to do. I don’t know what O2 you used but I like Mopar or NTK. Mopar comes with the right wiring length. Since you have the 4.0 that would be 56028301 for the Mopar sensor. Looks like rockauto still has them. But definitely need to check out the codes to see what it thinks is wrong.

Setting the toe yourself isn’t too bad and will be just as accurate as the rack, so good job.

I’d be surprised if you were lifted and still actually had the bars but maybe that is the case. The lift will put your drag link at an angle which is one component to negatively affecting the steering. Although there could be multiple factors. Some pics of your suspension/steering would help.
 
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Brian

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Nov 6, 2021
Messages
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Location
Hernando FL
Lookup the key trick to figure out what code is triggering the check engine light. That will probably narrow it down to what you actually need to do. I don’t know what O2 you used but I like Mopar or NTK. Mopar comes with the right wiring length. Since you have the 4.0 that would be 56028301 for the Mopar sensor. Looks like rockauto still has them. But definitely need to check out the codes to see what it thinks is wrong.

Setting the toe yourself isn’t too bad and will be just as accurate as the rack, so good job.

I’d be surprised if you were lifted and still actually had the bars but maybe that is the case. The lift will put your drag link at an angle which is one component to negatively affecting the steering. Although there could be multiple factors. Some pics of your suspension/steering would help.
Will add some pics soon. Definitely lifted, Hard for me to get into. I am 5'7"
 
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Brian

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Will add some pics soon. Definitely lifted, Hard for me to get into. I am 5'7". So this is how things have progressed. The oxy sensor I used was a NTK and seems to be working but light continues along with the miss in #3. Happened upon a video of someone with same issue. Apparently #3 injector is subject to excess heat from manifold. He insulated his with asbestus tube material. Someone else used a store bought insulation pad that lays on top the manifold. Anyway I took a strip of some gasket material, wrapped it with aluminum foil and formed a tube around #3 injector. Surprisingly the miss is gone and no more ck engine light. I removed front and rear track bars like you suggested, seems to handle better. Now I have stripped the interior floor of everything possible, cleaned and scuffed and wiped down with acetone. Used Rustoleum bed liner 2 part covering with a dabbing action over floor and a 2 nd cote. It is still drying but looks good. Hope it will cut down some of the noise. While coating is drying, I pulled the diff cover to change fluid. Fluid was like new, but the ring gear had 4-5 teeth with chipped areas. All bearings looked fine and no trace of metal anywhere. I know ring and pinion usually replace as a set, but the pinion looks spotless. Ever heard of just replacing the ring gear? If I do the pinion does that means I will have to do the bearings and crush sleeve. Also got some of that Redline MT90 for the trans to help with syncro issues. Will let you know how it turns out. As also, I appreciate you being my sounding board.
 

cas

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Nov 11, 2020
Messages
76
Location
NY
I put CJ style mirrors on my JY and yes the passengers side is tough. I added a rally mirror for the rear view , so most of the year when the full soft top is on, I never use the side mirrors, just the jumbo rear view.
 
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